Ch. Master Greg Moody, Ph.D.

P.S. The Transcript – The KarateBuilt Charter:

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Thanks for being here at another one of our Success Trainings. I’m here with Senior Master Laura Sanborn. Hello, ma’am.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Hello, sir.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

All right. And we’re going to talk about The KarateBuilt Charter, and we’re finishing up with this, one of the middle parts about it was Black Belt and Beyond. So let’s talk about, first of all, this is us. We’re here too, and this is our KarateBuilt Charter. I guess I skipped really fast past the introductions there. So the KarateBuilt is a highly disciplined martial arts school.

We measure results based on, not on who we exclude, but on students’ constant growth from the moment they start to Black Belt and Beyond. And then that’s the part that we’re going to talk about today is the “Black Belt and Beyond part.” The last part of our charter is about KarateBuilt black belts, once they become a black belt, which ties into Black Belt and Beyond that, it starts a new journey where they take responsibility to lead with integrity.

So there’s a leadership component and then there’s a personal integrity component where we would expect our black belts to be congruent inside and outside of the school and in the rest of their life. So this is the part that we’re talking about here from the moment they start to Black Belt and Beyond. And last time we talked about one of our primary ideas in our charter is that we don’t measure things based on, don’t measure people, our results based on who we exclude, but on their constant growth from one point to the next.

But the other piece that we’re going to talk about today is how they start from when they start is we set a goal to black belt, that it’s very important to set a goal to black belt and not just black belt, but we always say Black Belt and Beyond because our minimum expectation for our students would be that they get to second degree black belt, which is two years after first degree. So what would you say, ma’am, that the phrase Black Belt and Beyond means a KarateBuilt Martial Arts?

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

That there’s not a termination, there’s not a, oh, when we say we’re setting a goal, it’s a point between now and the next thing. It’s not, “Oh, I got to black belt, I’m done. I got to second degree and I’m done.” We’re not setting a termination point, we’re setting intermittent goals to lead to the next thing.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah. I think what you said is that setting a goal isn’t an end point. The goal is just a step on the way to the next goal. And one thing that’s very different about getting a college degree versus a martial arts degree, when you get a college degree, one of the purposes of that is to learn the things you learn in the degree. It’s also to have a certification or some sort of validation, which they call a bachelor’s degree, master’s degree, PhD, at the end of that, that lets you get a certain job.

So it’s a minimum, it’s kind of a level of training that allows you to do something later. And there’s a difference between that and martial arts and that the degree is a step on the way as you just said really well. But if you stop doing your degree, you’re intending to stop doing your college degree, that you’re going to do that and then get a job.

In the martial arts, if you stop doing the training, well you regress. You’re not going to be as physically capable. You’re not going to be as mentally acute to all the things that we talk about. You’re going to miss some of those pieces. So it’s not, even though we want to mark the achievement on your way to black belt and then beyond, we mark it by getting first degree, we mark it by getting second degree and you’re a seventh degree black belt, which is really high.

We mark those achievements to help us, motivate us to measure our progress. But if we stop, then we kind of move back down the physical path or the mental path that we had developed up to that certain point. So it’s so much different that it’s important to continue training and to continue working at what we do.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

And having those different levels is an indication that there is more to keep learning. It just shows you that there’s, oh, there is something beyond, but there’s going to be more to learn, something different. You’re not going to continue to do the exact same thing as you progress through the different levels. You’re going to get something new. You’re going to get new information, you’re going to get new physical abilities, you’re going to get new… Just new. So it’s a continual learning.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Lifetime learning. Lifetime learning. I just talked to my sister about that, lifetime learning.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Well, yeah. And there’s a statement, there’s a phrase that I think came from the founder of McDonald’s, Ray Kroc who said, “You’re either growing or decaying. You can’t just stay still.” I mean, that’s nature. Plants don’t just stay still. They either grow or they’re decaying. It’s winter or summer, they’ve got different stages. And that’s how we are.

And particularly as you get older, for those of us in our 50s and 60s that we get older, if we don’t keep growing, our bodies may not be able to do the same things as we did before. But if we don’t keep growing then we’re going to regress. We’re going to move backwards. And that’s one thing that keeps you healthy both mentally and physically. And we mean that sincerely. One thing I remember that Grand Master H.U. Lee, who is the founder of our martial arts organization, I remember him drawing on a whiteboard.

I was taking a seminar from him and he drew on a whiteboard and he said, “You start in your martial arts.” And for some reason he drew this as a square and you get first degree and then it takes about the same amount of time, maybe a little less to get second degree. And then you get third degree and then you get, he’d draw it. This isn’t to scale, fourth degree and so on. And then maybe all the way around to ninth degree.

And he was a ninth degree black belt, which is the highest that you can be in our martial arts system. And then he did this, he drew this arrow. And I was wondering, “What? What’s the arrow for?” And he goes, “Well, that’s me. I’m continuing to train. I continue to grow.” That was at the time and still kind of is, that’s the highest you can get. You can’t get any higher. There’s no other black belts to get, there’s no other martial arts title to get, there’s no anything.

He had everything. He was the Grand Poobah. But he drew this little arrow saying that that was him. He has to keep training, otherwise you kind of move back along the path that you came. And not that we… we want to recognize somebody as achieving their first degree or second degree or third degree or fourth degree black belt. If they’re not training, they still earn that rank.

But for us to actually get the benefits of it, we need to keep on training. And that’s why we set this goal over here. So what ways does the… I think some people don’t understand that when they get first degree black belt, they become a black belt. And what would you say the journey continues with once they get first degree, that’s different from when they were a beginner student, a color belt student?

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

It’s a lot of using what you’ve learned. So you’ve spent all this time getting to first degree, but now how do you apply that in different situations? How is that? I know even just a punch is different when you get to first degree the way we teach it, but you had to have all that stuff beforehand to set you up to do a proper punch as a black belt that’s powerful without giving it away, without using every piece of your body in front of somebody that you’ve learned. And the punch is just the most simple one, that instead of using every piece of your body outright for everybody to see, giving away what you’re doing, you’re learning how to use the power and stuff that you learned before in a more efficient way.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

That’s really well said, that even the basic techniques that we do when we’re black belts, because you built the foundation at the color ranks, you built a foundation almost like I would call it, like you didn’t know how to speak the language. If you didn’t know how to speak English and getting to your black belt is you’ve learned English.

So now you can rearrange it and put it into different ways and make sentences and construct a story. And then as you move up in the different ranks, second degree is kind of our minimum level because that’s when you can tell a story and communicate and talk. You’ve learned the language, now you’re learning how to use the language and now you can use the language with other people at second degree.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Exactly. And that’s why we become instructors and stuff because we’ve learned the basics and now we can communicate those basics in a stronger way that somebody else can absorb that information from us.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah. And that’s another level of training beyond. So Black Belt and Beyond includes the different martial arts training, but also the instructional training so that you can give that back and cycle. Because we never learn anything really well unless we teach it back to other people. You don’t learn it as thoroughly or as fully unless you can teach it back to other people.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Exactly.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Now one of the things that I was going to talk about is we introduced a new pin. I don’t know if we can see it. That’s our black belt pin. And this is for people that become a black belt. It’s for one for me, one for you. It doesn’t say eighth degree black belt, doesn’t say seventh degree black belt. It says black belt.

So all of our black belts now get these pins and it’s to wear outside of the martial arts school to remind them that one of our purposes is to act the same way, to use the skills, to feel, also personally feel confident that you’ve achieved something. It’s not to show off. It’s not to show off that you’re a black belt, but it’s to remind them that they have a responsibility outside the school, which we’ll talk more about that responsibility next time.

But black belt is a significant point because it’s when you get this and then it’s second degree, third degree, fourth degree, they’re still going to wear the same exact pin. So it’s a very different black belt journey than it would be before they become a black belt. What would you say that some of the principles are that they learn inside the school that we expect them to show and demonstrate when they’re outside the school? Some discipline and focus that applies?

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Well, and respect, just applying. We talk about respect all the time. We use respect all the time. And that one is so all-encompassing for just your behavior outside of the school. No matter who you’re talking to, no matter where you meet somebody, showing the respect that we talk about in the school.

And applying it in the school so it becomes a habit when you’re outside of the school. And that goes through all levels of people that they meet. And it takes discipline to do that. You practice it here, you apply it when you’re outside. And people respond to that. So that helps you build relationships with people because once you’re showing respect, they show respect back, you can develop a relationship and communicate with people better. And all of that starts with the discipline of creating a habit to do that.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Well, I think you said a couple really important things there. One thing that I think people get backwards is that I show respect because I want other people to be, I want to treat other people nicely. Well, sort of. I mean, that does treat people nicely when you show respect, but also it helps build relationships back to you. It’s both ways. If I treat you with respect, then you’re going to be nicer to me.

You’re going to pay attention to me differently. I remember my son, he wasn’t a black belt yet. He was five years old and he had been training with us for a couple years and he was at McDonald’s. I didn’t want to go to McDonald’s, but I had to take him to McDonald’s, so. Because they got the play stuff. So I said, “Well, you order the food.” He was five and I gave him the money and I said, “You order the food.”

And I can’t how he started talking about it, but he said, “Sir,” to the gentleman who was serving us the food. He said, “Sir, I would like a hamburger,” whatever he ordered. “Thank you, sir.” And he said, “Thank you, sir,” at the end. And the guy was shocked and he thought, “What an amazing kid that he would treat me that way and I’m the guy at McDonald’s,” which sometimes people feel like is not a high status job.

Right? It’s probably not a high status job. But he got called sir by the person at the counter. And I realized that was a big difference in how he would be, my son would be related to. It was great that my son did that. I was proud of him, but I also knew that he would get benefits from that.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Absolutely. And it becomes ingrained in you to look people in the eye when you’re talking to them and show them that respect and treat everybody that way, not pick and choose who you’re going to do it with. It’s all the people you meet, get that respect and get that part of you that we’ve just practiced and practiced. And why we practice it? We’re not just doing it. I mean, yes, we do it every single day and we talk about it, but we do explain why this works and why it’s expected of you in the martial arts as well as outside.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah. And I think that other things that people do, they talk about discipline and respect, but it’s not explicit. So I’m going to learn discipline by, let’s say I’m a kid and I play football and as I’m young and then older in high school. That’s discipline. My son played football, he was really good at it, he was very disciplined. But the purpose isn’t discipline. The purpose is to be really good at football. So you have to be disciplined to be good at football.

Whereas in what we’re teaching, discipline is part of the structure and part of the curriculum. We wouldn’t have to say, “Yes, sir” and “Yes, ma’am.” I wouldn’t have to call you Senior Master Sanborn or you call me Chief Master Moody. We wouldn’t have to do that to function, to make our day go normally, but it’s additional things that we do as part of what we are training in and how we’re training to treat other people.

There’s a lot of other things and well, and discipline’s an important one too because when you do that, one thing that we know is in fact it was in the new book about… Show this one, Parent Action Plan. This just came out. Parent Action Plan… Fear!. And it’s about helping your kid through anxiety and fear so that they’re successful and happy. So one of the things that ends up happening out of that is that, if I’m always anxious about things, then I’m not going to be comfortable being disciplined.

I won’t be able to be outgoing, I won’t be able to try new experiences, I won’t get new experiences, so I won’t build self-esteem. And so these things are all tied together and it’s built into what we do because almost nothing that we learn. At black belt, you learned all the foundation at our color belts, but once they become black belt, then they start learning, as you mentioned before, completely different things.

So if you continue to learn different things and get new experiences, that’s how you build a confidence that you could do other different experiences in your life. And so that’s again, that’s built in rather than something that’s just a side benefit. Like I mentioned, the football example. Not that football’s not great.

I mean, it was very good experience for my son, but it wasn’t, it was for that purpose, it wasn’t for these other skills that we were trying to do, trying to build and bring up in martial arts. So I had some other questions here. What do you think makes a difference when the students become a black belt and how they develop their leadership and their mental skills more other than just the physical things?

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Once they’re a black belt, that’s when we start, actually, we’d probably start before that, but as a black belt, we can have them helping with leading, be mentors for the other kids that haven’t gotten that far yet. And they learn to present themselves in that position because they’ve got, “I’ve done all this that you’re learning. Let me show you how it works. Let me show you the next part of that.”

A lot of our, even our youngest ones get up and help the next level of people that are coming into class. They show them where to sit, they show them where to stand, they showed them how to get into class, what do they do when they’re in class. In a leadership class, they’re standing right there telling them exactly what to say and how to do it. And that’s just part of the expectation that we have of them and we want them to have of themselves is that, “Now I’m a black belt, I have learned this much, I’ve got something to show for it. Let me pass that on.”

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Well, just like the respect example, it works both ways.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Yes.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Before they got their black belt, they were wearing a different color on their uniform. Once they tied the black belt on, they look different and they feel different because of that visual representation. And other people see them differently. And they saw them last week and before they tested for black belt, now they see them and they got their black belt and somebody’s going to go, “Oh, what do I do?” A new student might ask, “What do I do?”

Or they’re going to ask the black belt, they’re going to ask that person. So I feel like I have accomplished more that I am more capable, but also I’m treated like I’m more capable. So it builds the capability because now somebody asks me what to do and I actually have to figure out how to help them. I have to figure out what’s next. So it’s like giving somebody, I mean I’m sure when doctors go to medical school at one point they’re not called doctor so-and-so, they’re called Fred or Sally or whatever, and then they become a doctor and they’ve got that title in front of their name.

They have to live up to that title as well. It’s not just that they, they’re not magically different, but there’s something about getting that title that makes it so that people respect them more and ask their opinion more. And they better do the right thing. They better tell them the right information. They better help them the right way with medicine. And I think it works the same way as a black belt. I’m expected to be more, and so I have to be more at the same time.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Yeah, it’s a recognized indicator of that you had to put in so much work to get there. Even for people who don’t know martial arts, the words black belt indicate you had to have trained to get there. People don’t just get handed a black belt. It indicates that you went to a school, you learned from somebody, you were recognized as having learned so much, and then you get the next belt and then you had to learn so much more to get the next one and so much more to get the next one.

Getting your first degree black belt is that first indication that you put in the time. And then as you continue through the ranks, you feel it yourself even more. “Okay, I put in this much time. I’ve done this much. I do know what to do. I know how to do that. I can show somebody else how to do it because I know how to do it.” And it just built on itself.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah, I like what you’re saying. And the other flip side of it is in some schools and not ours, but in some schools or in some areas, they think that black belt’s the end. So they think that black belt is when you’ve learned enough and then you’re there. And that’s not it at all. It’s a big achievement. It’s a huge achievement, but it gives you, as we said before, the foundation so that you can really grow from a solid foundation.

If you don’t have the solid foundation, then you can’t really build anything. And I think the language example is pretty good. If you get to black belt and you stop training, you’ve learned all the language, you’ve learned how to talk, but you don’t know how to use your speech, you don’t know how to tell stories, you don’t know how to craft new expressions, you don’t know how to grow.

And then you start forgetting it. If I learned Spanish, I don’t know Spanish, but if I learned Spanish and I never used it, I would start forgetting it gradually. So if I want to be good at Spanish and be able to use it, I would learn the basics. I’d be kind of clunky at it, but I’d at least be able to do something.

And then practicing it a bunch would make me move further up the capability level and I’d feel better about speaking it. I’d feel much better. And then how do we tie second degree and third degree and fourth degree and fifth degree into all this? What do those have to do once maybe second degree is were the end is, but most of our students continue past second degree?

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

It becomes a permanent lifestyle. It’s part of who you are to go back and learn some more, take another class and take it somewhere else. So many of our students become instructors and then move on from there to owning their own school, taking it to the level that it’s a career, it’s a business for them. And then again, it’s a life skill, a lifestyle that they pass on to other people.

And that lifestyle is not just, I go in and I train really hard, but I show the principles of being a black belt to other people. Yeah. So it can be a permanent thing. And not every single person is going to become an instructor. Not every single one of them is going to. But there are pathways to continue training, continue learning and continue growing inside of the martial arts so that you don’t have to go, “Oh, I’ve gotten as far as my instructor can teach me. I’m done. My instructor’s a fourth degree. I got to fourth degree, I’m done.”

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah, that’s a good point what you just said. I mean, I think about it like this where when somebody starts in their white belt and they get to first degree, what most people would say is from first degree to second degree, so this is about three years, and this is about two years to second degree, that they learned just as much in the two years between first and second degree as they did in a three to four years from white belt to first degree.

So the acceleration of what they learned and how they felt capable about themselves went faster because up to first degree you had a solid foundation. So I think about this as graduating elementary school or sixth grade. And then second degree would be more like graduating middle school. And then third degree, at third degree you have some capability and kind of do some stuff on your own.

A lot of our third degrees are instructors, so this is more like high school because high school you can go get a job if you wanted, if you didn’t go to college. And then fourth degree, these aren’t to scale because they take longer. But fourth degree might be more like college because you have to be an instructor to be a fourth degree. And then from there, just like the arrow Grand Master drew that day, that’s continue up from there.

And when we become masters, then that’s when we’re able to teach instructors. So we’re not just instructors, but we can teach instructors. So these are different paths that or one big path that we would expect to continue to gain more and gain more and actually enjoy the training more versus I would think of health club examples like lifting weights. If you lift weights, you’re going to go like, it’s not going to go like this. It’s going to go like this. You’re going to plateau. You’re going to be able to lift so much weight.

And then after a while, you’re not going to be able to lift double the amount of weight that you did before. You’re going to be able to lift some small little improvement. And this is going up, but it’s going to go up very slow. In most things that we do, the acceleration is very slow versus what we’d expect is continue to almost accelerate faster in what our capabilities would be. So Black Belt and Beyond has a lot of components in it. Anything else you wanted to share about that or what we talked about today? Oh, you’re muted. You’re still muted.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Sorry about that.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

That’s okay.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

I just find for myself that it is a permanent part of my life inside and outside of the school. It’s no matter where I am, I know that I have communication skills. I know that I have the discipline to do what I need to get done to do the next thing. I know that I’ve passed that on to my children because I raised my children through this system of they have to have integrity. They’ve got work to do, you got to do it. And because of that, they’re both successful in what they do. I know my husband also went through and made it to fourth degree before he injured himself. And then he’s-

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Not doing this.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

[inaudible 00:25:44]

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Injured himself not doing this though.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

No, it was basketball. [inaudible 00:25:50] basketball.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Our video. For our video [inaudible 00:25:52]

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Yeah. No, it was basketball.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

But because of that, we can rely on each other knowing that the other one has the same kind of values, the same integrity when we’re in relationship with each other that it’s going to go forward. And we’re still looking for what’s the next thing we’re going to do together to continue to grow and just keep going and not stopping, not just sitting on the couch watching TV all the time.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Yeah, you either grow or you decay.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Yes.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

It’s one or the other. And so building a culture internally and in your family about growth is going to help us be happier, successful. And when we say successful, that sometimes almost sounds like we’re trying to get our kids or ourselves to be better than everybody else or rich or have to get a really high level degree. None of that stuff matters. It doesn’t matter if you have a lot of money or you can live whatever lifestyle you want to have. But growing can be different in a lot of different areas.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Exactly.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

So the capability to go make money or the capability to have a certain kind of job or outcome or the capability to be able to build a relationship or find somebody that you care about and those things, those capabilities are things that we’re trying to build. And we believe they build them by becoming Black Belt and Beyond. They train at black belt, so they’ve learned this base language. I think that’s great. We can wrap up there. I don’t know if you had anything else to add there, ma’am?

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

No, sir.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

So if you’re starting at KarateBuilt Martial Arts, that’s what we’re, the instructors are going to continue to talk to you about black belt from the day you start. In fact the day you start, we set your goal for first and second degree black belt as part of the process. And we’re going to keep setting. When you’re a first degree, we’re going to set your goal to second and third degree.

When you’re a second degree, you’re setting your goal for third and fourth degree so that you can see something as you just said really well, the next goal is just a step to the following goal and the following growth and who I’m going to be and how I’m going to be better. So thank you very much, ma’am. I really appreciate it and appreciate the growth that you’ve shown over the many years and that you help all the students with.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

Been a lot, so. Thank you very much, sir.

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master Instructor:

Thank you, ma’am.

Sr. Master Laura Sanborn:

All right.

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About Dr. Greg Moody:  Dr. Moody is an eighth-degree black belt and chief master instructor.  He has a Ph.D. in Special Education from Arizona State University (along with a Master’s Degree in Counseling and a Bachelor’s Degree in Engineering – he actually is a rocket scientist). He has been teaching martial arts for over 25 years and has owned eight martial arts schools in Arizona and California. Chief Master Moody is a motivational speaker and educator and teaches seminars in bullying, business, and martial arts training, around the world. See more at DrGregMoody.com.

The KarateBuilt Martial Arts Headquarters at KarateBuilt LLC is in Cave Creek, Arizona at 29850 N. Tatum Blvd., Suite 105, Cave Creek AZ 85331. You can locate the Chief Instructor, Master Laura Sanborn there directly at ‭(480) 575-8171‬. KarateBuilt Martial Arts serves Cave Creek, Carefree, Scottsdale, and Paradise Valley Arizona as well as Grand Rapids, MI.

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P.P.P.S. From a parent:

“Since joining this program, my son Herman is more disciplined, motivated, and unstoppable in every challenge he faces!” – Emily Green